Curse

Pick Me · May 18, 2007, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Rits can party heal with great efficiency.

Personally, I love it when I get in to PUGs and they are clueless about Rits. I was in a group with 2 monks and people died, monks cry for energy before they died. I sighed and rezed them all. Let the monks the credit for helping with the mission, they know and I know as a Rit, I saved the team's butts.

People don't pay attention to a spirit healing Rit. When conditions are spread, they assume the monk's remove the coniditions, when it is really me. Yup, Monks have Divine Favor, Healing Prayers and Protection Prayers, while Rits have Spawning, Communion, and Restoration. People forget there is at least 1 healing skill in Spawning (does require spirit though) and Shelter & Union from Communion to make good defenses.

Ensign · May 18, 2007, 09:02 PM // 21:02

The big drawback of a Rit healer is having to keep that spirit down. Putting down your own means you aren't available to heal for nearly 4 seconds - when you add in the cast time of your spells and the aftercast of the spell before it, you're looking at closer to 6 seconds without moving any bars to put down a spirit. That's not something you can do under pressure, which relegates Rit healers to 'backup healer', or gimmick (we already have a guy putting down spirits) healers most of the time.

If you have your spirits to work with, Rit healers outperform your basic 'bars go up' Healing Prayers Monks, at least the ones pre-Nightfall. With Nightfall elites, a Rit can't really keep up with a Healer's Boon Monk, nor with LoD (in situations where LoD is good). If the Monk knows how to use Prot effectively, there's really nothing the Rit can do to keep up. Of course most people don't run those, and you instead see a ton of WoH Monks that you are certainly competitive with.

But in general, I don't think you can replace the first Monk with a Ritualist. You can replace the second Monk with a Rit in situations that aren't super pressing - such as normal PvE - but in general the Rit has to be a third Monk substitute. They just aren't reliable or flexible enough to sub into a normal, just enough pure defense.

Peace,
-CxE

Age · May 18, 2007, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

People are retards. The only reason to take a monk over a rit is for prot prayers. Rits are vastly superior at red bars go up.

I feel ya with the "better get a couple more monks in case the rit sucks thing", and having to convince them otherwise. Then, when the mission starts, healing breeze boy on the other monk stands around and does nothing. Somehow, people think the monk did all the healing.

I don't buy this as most would know a healing monk can out perform a resto rit any day.You wil get your share of bad monks especailly those who went through Cantha's Sing Jea Island then you get those monks wh just want to get to the next farming area.They just use ofr the most part party and breeze as they aren't great at playing the role.

I have and still play monk and I did play rit.It was fun but mostly in Factions not in Proph.The only mission in NF I can think off were a rit is good in is Gate of Madness vs Shiro.I will say this that rits are good at keeping sin alive for some reason better than monk and protecting against sins.Monks on the other hand are better for Warriors.There is no way a rit can out heal or protect like a monk can.When I had my rit which at some point I may redo it was good and different but I found I could of done a better jop with my Monk like I said they can keep a sin healed up better but there is no way they have skills like infuse health.The good thing about rit is they are another castor class other than what Nightfall introdued us to.

ghostkai · May 19, 2007, 05:55 AM // 05:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArKaiN

Sigh.
Math, then.
[skill]Heal Other[/skill]+ [skill]Healer's Boon[/skill]
Assuming typical noob healer monk (16 healing, 13 Divine):
190*1.5=285+42=327 health
Casting time: 1,5/4 seconds
Recharge: 3 seconds
Cost:10

[skill]Healer's Boon[/skill] + [skill]Ethereal Light[/skill]
105*1.5=157+42=199
Casting time:1/2 seconds
Recharge:5
Cost:5

Spirit light is about equal to Ethereal Light under boon (assuming a spirit is around, otherwise ew),but if you have 2 castings of either mend b&s or Light you still get something inferior to boon+heal other.
I'm not going to go into LoD+h.haste, but you catch my drift.
And this is of course assuming this is some random healer monk, not a hybrid with Aegis and prot spells; Those just outclass a rest rit in every aspect.

Rest rits are cool because they can do cool stuff AND heal(like laying down recovery+recuperation for permanent bonuses while the party is stationary).
Don't make this about who heals/protects better, because 3 of the monk's attributes are relevant for that, while rits have one.

nice points, but i wanna point out just one thing, in both your equations your comparing 2 monks spells (main point is ONE OF THEM IS ELITE) to 2 of the rit resto spells. Spirit Transfer + Life = mmmmmmm. not to mention rit has other options for elite spot then and can heal for near on par amount. feast of souls is yum in a tight spot too

frojack · May 19, 2007, 11:25 AM // 11:25

In terms of healing, Rits can generally last the distance. That's their real strength (thanks to energy elites like Offering of Spirit, which can even be used without any spirits around). In terms of Spirit reliability, yeah it's a bit of a bottle-neck.
Long-standing spirits like Blood Song make this easier to deal with, as can a pre-cast of Kaolai to try and 'cover' the time you were 'afk'. Lacking hex removal is a bit poor, although non-elite removal isn't so hot on monks either.

Since they can last the distance thanks to stunning e-management, Rits are certainly better in competitive play as general healers since these matches tend to go on for a lot longer... Which in itself is a bit of a joke since Prot is far more useful in such a situation anyways.

Kinda' stuck between a rock and a hard place I guess. While they certainly come up to par as healers, I can understand if a team might still prefer a regular monk in PvE.
Of course also in PvP. However, the day enchantment stripping becomes relatively 'easy' and more common-place at high levels of play, is the day when teams may choose to start mixing and matching...

Div · May 19, 2007, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trylo

So i was in a group and they needed a healer, i switched to my rit helm and pinged my build (Spirit Light Weap, Mend B&S, Spirit Light, Essence Strike, Gaze of Fury, Life, Deny Hexes, Rez/Divine Spirit).

The fact that you took essence strike, gaze of fury, and divine spirit makes them quite suspicious about your healing. Not to mention no elite either.

It's like if I played a monk and pinged something like:
orison, mend ailment, heal other, mind blast, bane signet, heal party, deny hexes, aura of restoration

Xeeron · May 19, 2007, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Never had that problem really. When I played my Rt at the start of Factions, it was pretty much common knowledge and expected that Rts are restauration. And still today, getting into PuG as a Rt healer seems easy. I am for more amazed about the groups which see a damage Rt for the first time. Numerous warriors that PM you after getting Splinter weapon clearly show that they have that skill on them for the first time.

- Xeeron

Geishe · May 19, 2007, 04:45 PM // 16:45

I never had that problem either... I've been able to get into most PuG as a resto rit. I would think its the build they're suspicious of.

erfweiss · May 19, 2007, 05:18 PM // 17:18

I'll comment on this as I have run a monk with Healers Boon and run a restore rit all the time.

Healers boon is a great elite, but what gets you in trouble is not managing your energy (based on the 1 less pip of regen to use it).

With my restore rit, I rarely have energy issues, as Attuned takes care of that easily.

My normal restore rit build: Rt/Mo

16 Restoration
13 Spawning
3 Healing

1. Ghostmirror light
2. Mend body and soul
3. Soothing memories
4. Spirit light
5. Rebirth/Rez chant, dependant on mission
6. Attuned (Elite)
7. Life
8. Recuperation

Winstar · May 19, 2007, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Rits can certainly do the job in PvE in many cases, but are still inferior to monks. Monks can still at least keep up with them in terms of healing with HB (btw, There is no reason to have energy problems on an HB bar of its setup and run properly) if not surpass them and have non-elite utlity and do not rely on having spirits down which remove them for dangerous amounts of time from the action while casting. If you think its not a big deal to have your healer removed from action 4-6 seconds all told then the context in which you have been playing is not really testing the bars you are bringing. Its like a self imposed blackout.

Also, Prot > Vanilla Healing. Most decent monk bars are prot/heal hybrids (RC bars, Divert bars, LoD bars, blessed light bars, SoD etc etc) and have been so for a long time. I.e. since gift of health has been around. Good prots with supplementary heals will be better than straight heals any day, and outside of wep warding- which is certainly a great spell, rits have no real prot.

Rits have nothing to actually deal with hexes unless they rely into their 2ndary. They can Regen some degen or heal up some lost health, but hexes are not simply about health loss but can shut down melee and caster alike. If you can't actually remove the hexes in these cases (price+reckless, Migraine covered + interrupts and so on) then you are in trouble. Rits have to either dip into the monk line anyway to deal with these or go with a really inflexible elite like expel.

I played factions through as a restoration rit and had no trouble doing so. In fact I like playing them. But normal mode (or pre-hard mode) PvE is a joke in terms of diffuculty. Pushing beyond that your are in most cases better off using a monk outside of the days of spirit spam builds in HA.

Trylo · May 19, 2007, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

The fact that you took essence strike, gaze of fury, and divine spirit makes them quite suspicious about your healing. Not to mention no elite either.

It's like if I played a monk and pinged something like:
orison, mend ailment, heal other, mind blast, bane signet, heal party, deny hexes, aura of restoration

learn to read... youre post is completely useless and your bar doesnt reflect any parts of my build

Thanks for some support and opinions on the issue, i havent played much pvp with restore rit, but i can definately see how spirits make them gimped in tight spots.

but for pve ... i guess i should just use heroes anyways

ArKaiN · May 20, 2007, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by erfweiss

Healers boon is a great elite, but what gets you in trouble is not managing your energy (based on the 1 less pip of regen to use it).

Are you kidding? Say you're kidding.
-1 energy to multiply every spell you cast by 1.5 is ENERGY MANAGEMENT.
You spend about 50% of the energy you usually do as a healer when boon is up.

Sir Pandra Pierva · May 20, 2007, 08:25 PM // 20:25

I play a Rit healer who doesn't use any spirits and yet it might just be me but I have found I outlast the monks in healing in long battles and I can also those Leroy Sins alive and also come out to live. And unlike the monks that I have seen in Guild Wars, if the enemies look at them they run like hell, I can stay in the middle of combat with out much for healing back and still keep on healing and stay alive for a long period of time. I personally find spirits only really useful in missions such as Thunderhead. But I don't like doing that cause you have to tell the group to not go running in and get themselves killed while one healer is out of action while dropping that one spirit. I also find even without my energy management I still never run out of energy. Though that me be because I am always having Generous was Sagnui. I have had to rez the whole team and keep on healing others before. I personally think that even though Monks can out-heal Rits. Rits and the more durable healers in the heat of combat. Healer Rit and Prot Monk=Your not dieing any time really soon. I have said my piece.

Trylo · May 20, 2007, 08:42 PM // 20:42

would you mind posting your build? it sounds a little too good to be true >_>

street peddler · May 20, 2007, 10:22 PM // 22:22

i can honestly say ive never had a group say a rit cant heal.

TGgold · May 21, 2007, 01:43 AM // 01:43

I really like being a resto rit. Honestly, I take destruction with me a lot of times since it's a 3 seocnd cast and a 15s recharge, plus it lasts a while. It's easily maintainable. I use Spirit Light Weapon most of the time. It pretty much makes my life easy.

Rits are very good healers, very good condition removers, and very good at offering other utility effects that a pure monk healer can't compete with really.

In any case, if you have 2 monks, or a rit and a monk, the two supporters should really coordinate to prevent overlap and whatnot. (ex: If I'm running condition removal, the prot monks shouldn't have any...)

Age · May 21, 2007, 05:11 AM // 05:11

There is no way even if Monk wanted to go back and use Devine Boon on a healing bar with that extra 35 it will heal for more.Rits can't heal up a hex degen like a healing Monk can like suffering or well of.Then you must hold an item or have your spirit to be efficient.You can not be efficient well dropping a spirit and have to kite away.This is why you don't see a lot of Rits in GvG matches maybe HA.I have played a Rit and they are fun but they are still not as good as Monk.

When it comes to healer boon did the boon protects worry about 1 loss of pip of regen. no they didn't.

Cebe · May 21, 2007, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghostkai

nice points, but i wanna point out just one thing, in both your equations your comparing 2 monks spells (main point is ONE OF THEM IS ELITE) to 2 of the rit resto spells. Spirit Transfer + Life = mmmmmmm. not to mention rit has other options for elite spot then and can heal for near on par amount. feast of souls is yum in a tight spot too

QFT. I love the way whenever someone states that Rits are better healers than Monks, a Monk comes along with "But you can't beat Healer's Boon + Jamei's Gaze". My response is....how much are you going to be able to spam that 10-energy spell with 3 energy regen, hot-shot?

about 4 times, 5 if you're lucky... gg.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArKaiN

Don't make this about who heals/protects better, because 3 of the monk's attributes are relevant for that, while rits have one.

Rits only need one.

yesitsrob · May 21, 2007, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

There is no way even if Monk wanted to go back and use Devine Boon on a healing bar with that extra 35 it will heal for more.Rits can't heal up a hex degen like a healing Monk can like suffering or well of.Then you must hold an item or have your spirit to be efficient.You can not be efficient well dropping a spirit and have to kite away.This is why you don't see a lot of Rits in GvG matches maybe HA.I have played a Rit and they are fun but they are still not as good as Monk.

When it comes to healer boon did the boon protects worry about 1 loss of pip of regen. no they didn't.

Wow, my IQ just dropped

Guildmaster Cain · May 21, 2007, 09:23 AM // 09:23

Rits can heal in two ways:

Indirect Healing/Buff, via spirits. This is/was very nice, though takes the place of the Prot monk if you focus solely on this. Before the Spirit Spam nerf, the monks in my party complained because they didnt have anything to do anymore. Even on the Fire Islands and FoW this was true. Sadly after the nerf, I cannot tell about experiences, since I deleted the template.

Direct Healing, basically uses a lot of the conditional restoration heal skills. The Rit Healer has the advantage that most of his healing skills only cost 5 energy and have fast cast and recharge time. Usually these skills are conditional, but when requirements are met, they can OUTHEAL the monks elite skills like WoH and ZB, when you look at pure healing power, including the monks Divine bonus.

Weapons spells I neglect here, since I have little experience with them. You could use weapon spells to counter degen.